tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post922802305023331004..comments2024-01-23T10:33:09.737+00:00Comments on Hand of History: Sore Feet and the DUPA Selective Readinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-20489740906728621912010-05-06T14:40:36.262+01:002010-05-06T14:40:36.262+01:00Stating the Obvious,
I see where you are coming f...Stating the Obvious,<br /><br />I see where you are coming from and I would have ask then should every single candidate be an independent? So as not to pledge their voting power to whoever gets in?<br /><br />Yes it has an advantage in the scenario you are thinking about. I take that point. The UUP (and Rodney Connor) have agreed to take the Conservative whip. For the UUP it is a alliance and one that can be sensitive to NI's needs (UUP voted against the devolution of P&J due to lack of movement within the Executive on a range of 'ordinary' issues). Most of the time the DUP have voted with the Conservatives anyway. Though according to the Telegraph <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7683450/General-Election-2010-DUP-now-being-courted-by-Labour.html" rel="nofollow"> the DUP are lining up to support Labour </a>.<br /><br />No matter how many MPs sent to Westminster from NI and how they align themselves,the big players will still be Conservatives, labour and Lib Dems. Depending on a hung parliament could be a risky a strategy. It may work out, but a hung parliament would be bad for the economic recovery of the UK as a whole.A Selective Readinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-52851195367852959222010-05-06T10:19:41.259+01:002010-05-06T10:19:41.259+01:00And the best way of helping NI in the union cannot...And the best way of helping NI in the union cannot possibly be to pledge your votes to a party in advance. The uup have no better an idea of what the Tories have planned for NI than the rest of us, it's tactically and logically unsound to pledge your votes before you know what you're voting forStating the obviousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-86505638165772483062010-05-06T09:56:41.240+01:002010-05-06T09:56:41.240+01:00Stating the obvious,
Fair enough points, and I ap...Stating the obvious,<br /><br />Fair enough points, and I appreciate the level of debate as well.<br /><br />I think the main point is who the different parties look towards to get the best for NI within the Union. Scotland is the most active in looking to break the Union (yes OK, in reality it could just be a moot point with independence being improbable) Wales is slightly different with people there not even really enthusiastic about the devolution they got.<br /><br />It is a difference is how the DUP or the UUP think the best way of helping Northern Ireland within the Union. In the end we can only see where it all leads us.<br /><br />At least Dr Who gives us all some solace that the UK is still there in a few hundred years hence :)A Selective Readinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-91446280041756907542010-05-06T09:12:12.900+01:002010-05-06T09:12:12.900+01:00Anonymous (just before Stating the obvious),
That...Anonymous (just before Stating the obvious),<br /><br />That is a very valid point. Integration vs devolution seems to be an issue that we still grapple with, though I think much more on a philosophical level now. <br /><br />Devolution is a reality - and you are right every Unionist party will be doing what it can to promote the Union whilst getting the best deal for Northern Ireland. The old adage remains true - all politics is local!<br /><br />I think you have hit a mark where the debate has moved a bit towards how best devolution can be used for the people of Northern Ireland. It is a debate, I think, that will rise more to prominence throughout the UK as the whole UK is still coming to terms with devolution and what it means for the Union.<br /><br />There is a contention that rather than the devolved countries diverging from UK policies (i.e. England) it is England that is diverging from the devolved countries. A prime example is the policy on prescription charges. (Free or getting that way in Scotland, Wales and NI only)<br /><br />I suppose it will be a debate that will continue on as long as the integration/devolution debate. And of course which party can best achieve that be it DUP, UUP or TUV.A Selective Readinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-44824225828585075312010-05-06T08:29:02.630+01:002010-05-06T08:29:02.630+01:00Anonymous (the one i replied to before :) )
It is...Anonymous (the one i replied to before :) )<br /><br />It is a fair enough point. But in politics as well I would at least like to think politicians are as professional as many other people are (accept not everybody will be).<br /><br />Having worked with many politicians before, including a number of DUP MPs, MLAs and Councillors. All have been absolutely professional and helpful.<br /><br />It also depends on whether or not I stay in a lobbying role to. I am now concentrating more on being a daddy daycare! :) and other business interests as well.A Selective Readinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-70931725427585805812010-05-05T20:36:49.455+01:002010-05-05T20:36:49.455+01:00Ivor,
To be clear, what is being argued in your/s...Ivor,<br /><br />To be clear, what is being argued in your/sore feet's piece appears to be that devolutionists are not really "Unionists".<br /><br />Surely this is just the old integrationist .vs. devolutionist debate that the UUP loves having with themselves over and over again, because its ultimately meaningless, as you can be either and still be just as much of a Unionist. <br /><br />The DUP is a devolutionist party, trying to get the best deal for Northern Ireland, your position appears to be that Northern Ireland should not get any more than anyone else, that is non-sense especially considering that we are trying to overcome decades of underinvestment from that very same government.<br /><br />I have nothing against you personally, I just think you ought to make sure your premise is logically sound before trying to defend itStating the obviousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-69940589414718631532010-05-05T18:53:03.904+01:002010-05-05T18:53:03.904+01:00But in reality the DUP position, as articulated he...But in reality the DUP position, as articulated here, is really the position of every Unionist party. We want to be in the union, but treated as a special case within the union. <br /><br />In the late 70s, the Official Unionists, had a chance to become an integrationist party through Enoch Powell, but they decided to remain as a party of devolution. Through the 1980s both unionist parties wanted to be in the union but treated differently from the other constituent parts of the union. No other part of the UK had devolved administration in the 1980s yet both parties wanted devolved institutions.<br /><br />Right now the fundamental difference between the DUP and the UUP is not that they want Ulster treated as a special case within the union, it’s that they see two different ways of achieving that. The UUP see a formal association with the Tories as the way to deliver a pro-Ulster agenda and the DUP see complete independence on a vote by vote basis, with a leaning to the Tories, as the way to achieve it. Don't kid yourself that the UUP feel any differently, from the DUP, as to what your article above states. Both unionist parties (and the TUV) want to be in the union, but get as much as they can for Northern Ireland out of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-91769265095546040922010-05-05T17:50:47.725+01:002010-05-05T17:50:47.725+01:00Ivor. If I was a DUP rep I know what view I'd ...Ivor. If I was a DUP rep I know what view I'd take an it wouldn't be so benign. <br /><br />You really think you can divorse yourself from those views?should be fun lobbying a DUP MP who you were actively trying to unseat. <br /><br />Good luck with that one. Sometimes you just have to pick your horse. Seems you picked the wrong one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-42154639147832624192010-05-05T17:34:48.544+01:002010-05-05T17:34:48.544+01:00This is a point I have been discussing for the las...This is a point I have been discussing for the last months, the DUP seem to be all over the place with their message. What do they define as being unionist? Is it an equal part in the union or is it a 'special' relationship with England Scotland and Wales where the other three continue to bail us out and get nothing but grumpy ulstermen (and women) saying no at every opportunity.<br /><br /><br />The DUP have lost their way, as your commentator points out, if any potential prime minister in the last 90 years had said what Cameron has said the DUP would be hailing him as a leader of great vision and ability.<br /><br />Unfortunately todays DUP seem too wrapped up in being the big boys in the playground and have forgotten why they came into existence in the first place.<br /><br />They are now the Northern Ireland Nationalists and have very little desire to strengthen Ulsters place in the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-23810259541828886192010-05-05T16:36:06.934+01:002010-05-05T16:36:06.934+01:00Stating the obvious,
What would they not dare do ...Stating the obvious,<br /><br />What would they not dare do to Scotland or Wales? The UK government has done plenty to Scotland (oil revenue for one) and Wales. The Barnett formula for one is something the UK government has been unwilling to increase for some time now and has levied 'efficiency savings' over the past number of years.<br /><br />I don't think his point is that we should 'take it' and the question posed by Sore Feet is are the DUP for Unionism or not? I think the DUP, whether the UCUNF experiment works or not, may find it tactically helpful but strategically unhelpful to take the present tack of hoping for a hung Parliament. they could of course prove Sore Feet and myself completely wrong and play a blinder. There are no certainties until the future becomes the present.A Selective Readinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-25880151952508394322010-05-05T16:25:41.282+01:002010-05-05T16:25:41.282+01:00Anon,
If whatever work I do means lobbying anyone...Anon,<br /><br />If whatever work I do means lobbying anyone within the DUP I am still very likely to do just that. <br /><br />Out of the glare of the media limelight DUP representatives are very professional, especially when an issue is of real relevance to the the DUP representatives. I know a lot of them, and my utterances are my personal views only. there is always a line between personal and professional. I usually find the DUP, as any of the other political representatives, always thick skinned enough to have a very professional approach.<br /><br />The main body is from a friend - and they asked me if i would put it up. I am open to have any pieces sent my way. I won't pretend to be impartial but i will do my best if the piece is different to my own views.A Selective Readinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02298907898956157153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-17745201352484465542010-05-05T16:16:55.966+01:002010-05-05T16:16:55.966+01:00The fundamental point of the piece appears to be t...The fundamental point of the piece appears to be that "sore feet" gets a warm fuzzy feeling inside when the westminster government bends him over and does to NI what they wouldn't dare do to the rest of the UK, so in essence, his point is that we should just take it? What kind of point is that? Its symptomatic of the masochistic dysfunction of a UUP memberStating the obviousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27734732.post-71967589367890968752010-05-05T15:22:25.111+01:002010-05-05T15:22:25.111+01:00Just one question...
Presumably you are still in ...Just one question...<br /><br />Presumably you are still in your previous employment.<br /><br />Does that mean you will be likely to go to any DUP representative in the future to lobby them?<br /><br />Do you think your utterances will have helped their disposition towards you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com